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This counts as an interview... - MaKaeruKai
The Realm of MaKaeru
This counts as an interview...
And so for my speech that was due last week but I'll be working on tomorrow, I've decided to bitch about the nouveau K8 fans (ie the NewS ship-jumpers) and what they're detracting from the group.

So, people of my flist, please express your opinions on the fans, and what they're doing right and/or wrong.

Yao, Mado-kun, I'm expecting to hear from you. Please?

21 nybbles / byte me?
From: boyz_kure Date: 2nd September 2006 14:12 (UTC) (Link)
LOL WHAT can you explain the situation cause i have no idea.
but doesnt it not matter how long people have liked a group?
like does it really detract from how much you enjoy their songs or dvds.
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 2nd September 2006 22:06 (UTC) (Link)
The group's actually having problems with some fans - there are girls following Ohkura home and disturbing the peace around his house, and fans who don't know how to behave at a play, which has resulted in Hina making a very polite (yet incredibly scathing) Jweb entry, and Subaru to fly off the handle and start yelling at a girl who cut him off midsentence during an MC.

And we think Subs is starting to become an alcoholic - he says he's recently put on 20% of his own weight in beer.
From: boyz_kure Date: 3rd September 2006 00:13 (UTC) (Link)
oh true! i thought you meant just in the internet community, not actually for the group themselves. that's pretty damn crap :( wtf at them, seriously. and it's mostly ex-news fans? weirddddd.
(Deleted comment)
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 2nd September 2006 21:59 (UTC) (Link)
Ohkura's having problems with girls following him home and causing a ruckus around his house, one of Hina's recent jweb entries was entitles "Manners" and was all about how to behave at a play (ie not screaming their names when they're saying their lines, grabbing at them when they're close by on the catwalks, not laughing during serious scenes and so forth. And he apologised to all the fans who weren't going to the shows that had to read that - ie sorry to the good fans who missed out on tickets because all the shithead fans from You & J took them), and Subaru actually screamed at a fan the other day at a con during the MC when she cut him off midsentence by yelling "Tacchon! Say something!". Tacchon: "...about what?" Girl: "food." Subaru: "How dare you talk to him in plain speech, you don't even know him. It's rude to cut people off midsentence, et c., et c."

Those are the main ones.
noesunexito From: noesunexito Date: 3rd September 2006 13:55 (UTC) (Link)
whoa what the fuck, those girl have got to be news/kattun fans.
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 3rd September 2006 14:03 (UTC) (Link)
That's what I think.

I'd love to see Baru physically attack I nouveau "K8 fan". (I wonder if the contraction No-Kay would catch on?)

Subs has also started googling himself recently - showing up in forums and causing quite a kerfuffle. Especially ones that say "Wouldn't it be cool is Subaru actually could read this?". But they've all been giving him support and telling him how much they love him, so it's not all bad.
noesunexito From: noesunexito Date: 3rd September 2006 14:31 (UTC) (Link)
I bet he would. Especially if he starts doing lives drunk oh my god i would pay good money to see that.

Wait, he has? how do people even know it's him?
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 3rd September 2006 14:37 (UTC) (Link)
I guess they don't (but if they read his Jweb afterwards they'd know), but if someone called Shibutani Subaru rocked up on your forum and acted like the real thing, you'd probably start praising him. Especially when the rest of your forum is full of almost sycophantic gushing about him.
kenaressa From: kenaressa Date: 2nd September 2006 15:38 (UTC) (Link)
Since I don't move in circles frequented by those who create fandom wangst...however, I'll give you my two cents on what bothers me about the bits I have seen.

1- tunnel visioned on Ryo and/or Uchi: this is my number one complaint with the NewS fans. yes, ok, so they're the ones you know about BUT there are six other members of K8. If you're going to call yourself a K8 fan, they deserve your attention too.

2- pairing angst: yes, I know Ryo/Uchi is your OTP (I don't mind it myself) but please stop whining when other K8 shippers pair Ryo with someone else....watch some of the Honjani's floating around, you can practically ship anyone with anyone in K8. (isn't it lovely ^__^v)

3- (this one is just speculation, but I wouldn't put it past some people) If you are going to a K8 concert, even if you were originally a NewS fan and just need your Johnny's fix, DO NOT DENIGRATE/IGNORE THE OTHER MEMBERS (ie everyone except Ryo). It makes everyone look bad, unless you are wearing a huge NewS sign, in a crowded concert hall, no one knows where your loyalties truly lie.

...ok, so looking back at my points, I guess I just hate it when K8 isn't taken as a group...or when people who profess to be K8 fans are really just Ryo and/or Uchi fans (it's fine to just be a fan of one person, but don't go bitching at everyone else when they don't share your world view).
kenaressa From: kenaressa Date: 2nd September 2006 15:39 (UTC) (Link)
....I guess I had more to say than I thought...
From: essie07 Date: 2nd September 2006 19:38 (UTC) (Link)

Alright, let's get the ball rolling. Ship-jumpers. If I could describe them, they'd mostly be in their teens (but sometimes age doesn't discriminate when it comes to actual maturity, so I will take that into consideration) who are in all those _____daily communities, have folders of scans they stole from just about everywhere, and I can bet you that at least half of them have never bought a single CD or DVD. A lot of the new ones cross-post in 100 communities, ask for ridiculously large uploads (usually like DVDs which irks me a lot because some even ask for HIGH QUALITY... as though watching a concert DVD in HQ really makes it that much better since beggars can't be choosers). So ship-jumpers, in general, suck a lot. You know, there are the few that are awesome and actually know how to use Google so they don't ask moronic questions that get them flamed (being in the JE fandom has taught me that it IS possible to ask stupid questions).

The K8-NewS tie-in with Ryo and Uchi is probably the cause for all of this. I think most people will agree with me when I say that specifically because they were the ones who had connections to lively, fun people. NewS was actually really clique-y if you think about it. Koyama was glued to Pi most of the time, trying to absorb as much of Pi's greatness as he could, the rest of the KKKitty boys were stuck together and Massu and Tegoshi were paired because they can actually sing really well. So because of the group non-conformity, it was easy when the suspensions kicked in for girls to think, "oh well there's Ryo and he's pretty hot. At least I can see him with Kanjani-whatever they are."

So, what are they detracting now that they're nouveau fans? For one, they still have tunnel-vision and concentrate on how hot Ryo is. If they've branched, it's most likely towards Tacchon because he's hot, he's around Ryo all the time (not because they're paired that way, but because they're ACTUALLY friends, but you know that), and he got his own drama SP where he got to be a dork and a hottie at the same time. If they've branched out even further, it's to include Subaru but only because it's impossible to deny that ossan has one of the most unique and moving voices in JE history. I seriously don't think new fans like any guys past those I've listed (I would add Uchi but his ass is still not back so boo for him). I have yet to meet a ship-jumper who has declared their infinite love for Hina or Maru (which is sad because those two are really high on my list).

I don't know if it's mean-spirited of me to say that I sort of pity the ship-jumping fans, but I'll say it anyway. It's kind of pathetic to hold on to that one vestige that connected both groups and start liking another group that way just because the other got suspended. If anything, I feel bad for K8 too because they have a ton of new, half-assed fans who don't even really LIKE them. I mean, let's put it this way, if you can't even remember the names of the rest of the group, it's not fair to say that you love K8.

After all this complaining, I can say that I've only met maybe one or two new fans who have done things right. They've asked for information (and not like "OMG who does Ryo like better?") rather than media files, they were polite and well-articulated, and they didn't declare love for the most obvious choices. I've met new Hina fangirls who have also immediately fell for the rest of the group, but these kind of fans aren't ship-jumpers. I don't think there are any of those NewS→K8 fangirls who have done something right when it comes to being a new K8 fan.
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 2nd September 2006 22:10 (UTC) (Link)
How could I not know you'd pounce on it?

Thank you for that. Feel free to add anything else - I'm probably going to go into Hina's jweb and the Tacchon stalkers too. And maybe even that Subs has put on 20% of his own weight in beer.
From: essie07 Date: 3rd September 2006 09:07 (UTC) (Link)
I agree with those points too. I think the fandom I was broadly speaking about was the English-speaking JE fandom but yeah, we can't forget the crazy newbie Japanese fans. They're worse than us, but only because they're actually in Japan... if the circumstances were different, I'm sure English-speaking fans would do stupid shit like that as well.

I think I've seemed to tone down a lot with my rants and my bitchy personality because I like to largely ignore the JE fandom unless someone comes along and does something awesome like scan or upload rare stuff. However, one thing I refuse to let go is my hate for RUDE fangirls. I'm sure K8 doesn't want my sympathy, but it's hard not to feel for them considering how they have to deal with like... "NewS leftovers". Thank god whatever drives them is not so much appealing to fans (I mean as in just looking good and not doing much else) but to make the music they love the most. Now I know they don't have much leeway in what they're allowed to release, but at least JE lets them mess around with subgroups and hell, Subaru and DB even got venues for their duo + FiVE group thingie. It's a shame that they have to suffer with infernal brats for fans just because they're the group who has common sense (well... at least 7/8 of them have it) and had Ryo first. Big deal if he was in NewS... I don't predict them coming back even by next year... not that it really matters if and when they do. I suppose it must stess them out to a certain degree that girls are getting antsy even though it's been longer than a year and the brat still hasn't made a reappearance. It's still not fair that K8 has to deal with people who don't have any respect for them and blindly (as well as obnoxiously) declare themselves to be fans.

LOL zenbu no NewS no fans ha sugoi ira ira suru desho? God my nihongo sucks. I better review before school starts. ROFL
From: samiancha Date: 3rd September 2006 03:23 (UTC) (Link)
"of course it would be better if Uchi were there/were singing"

gar. Yes, for me it's mostly about ignoring the other guys who have been working hard all this time, and that there's going to be a big hoo-hah when he comes back.

It's 'fans' who can't name all the members of the group.

But then I hate that even about fans of groups who haven't split up... and to be fair there's no concrete evidence that the fans causing problems are actually ex-News deserters...
noesunexito From: noesunexito Date: 3rd September 2006 13:54 (UTC) (Link)
I don't know how I missed this but omg please interview me...or wait should I just start spewing out my 2 cents on this topic?

Also, best topic for a speech everrrr.
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 3rd September 2006 13:55 (UTC) (Link)
Just start ranting.

lol. Go Now! just came on shuffle. I love this song.
noesunexito From: noesunexito Date: 3rd September 2006 14:30 (UTC) (Link)
Hmm, okay. To tell you the truth I think I only have a capacity to seriously love and collect and appreciate things for at most 2 JE groups; those would be my 'ichiban's and those groups I would consider myself as a total fan. That used to be Arashi and Kanjani8, but now it's Arashi and Shounentai. K8 is right below those two (unfortunately, so are Tokio and the Kinki Kids, JE is a big rat race to my wallet lololol) but the difference between top tier and second tier is massive, so I've been in the dark about K8. The last thing I remember seeing of theirs was around when they released Osaka Obachan Rock.

I knew You&J was a bad idea as soon as I saw it. First of all, do you know of any other JE group still around that doesn't have its own fanclub? Especially THREE groups, including JE's new shiny new thing Kattun. I won't beat around the bush, I hate me some Kattun but they've somehow managed to outsell Arashi and Dreamboys was definitely STARRING KATTUN AND OH YEAH MAYBE KANJANI 8 TOO. Therefore, if you're in that fanclub and you have three groups to choose from, you're going to get a lot of what I call 'buffet fans', who are basically casual fans who instead of liking one group intensely, like several groups casually. I guess now with the demise of NewS all those fans are going into K8, and you may have a few Kattun fans who are curious about those guys who were standing around in the back in Dreamboys.

I've had the privilege of attending three concerts this summer and I really was able to see the difference in maturity. Shounentai's musical was amazing, and not a single fan screamed or shouted out; they just politely clapped when the time came for it. When they went down the aisles, no one got up or grabbed at them, everyone nicely shook hands with them. Also, everyone was dressed nicely. At the ENDLICHERI*ENDLICHERI concert, there were a few people wearing ridiculous outfits, and there was screaming and one obnoxious girl yelling "ENDLICHERI DAISUKI" at the quiet moments, but other than that it was quite orderly. At Arashi, there was a lot more inordinate screaming, and crazed grabbing. I'm on old man, so I really think that 'kids these days' are getting ruder and ruder, and actually there are a lot of articles to back me up in this matter (I think they call it 自由化 and わがままculture) That's why free timers are increasing and kids don't know keigo anymore; gone are the days of the bubble economy where idol fan clubs were organized within themselves to 'not cause the idol any inconveniences.'

On the western front, I think these new fans are also coming from the anime world, where everything gets leaked on the net the second something gets out and shitty basic japanese kids 'translate' stuff as soon as their bittorent gets done, thus creating these "gimme now!" type fans who want everything at once. I don't know about NewS fans, but I can agree with the tunnel vision argument (to an extent, every group has that one guy that people like without regards to the other group members) and I can't offer any explanation to why they can't use google except for the fact that they're lazy and/or don't speak english well and are bafflingly trying to get into the english fandom when they could just go on chinese forums.
mesmerising From: mesmerising Date: 6th September 2006 13:17 (UTC) (Link)
Usagi deeeeeeesu~! Ne! XD
makaeru From: makaeru Date: 6th September 2006 22:28 (UTC) (Link)
mesmerising From: mesmerising Date: 6th September 2006 22:40 (UTC) (Link)
ichigohime From: ichigohime Date: 23rd September 2006 12:59 (UTC) (Link)
I am doing to disagree with some other commentors -
I think You and J was a good idea, and was really the only solution Johnny could come up with - and actually helps fans and the groups more than if they had their own fan club.

No, there are no other debuted groups that have to share a fan club - but this is also the first time in Johnny's history that 3 groups, all of relatively the same age, all with relatively the same fan base - debutted at relatively the same time.

I think many English speaking fans tend to forget that the major fan base for News/Kattun/K8 is the 13-19 year old school girls. The majority of these girls do not pay for the fan club on their own, they have to ask their parents for permission to join, their parents need to make the payments and if they do pay themselves it is out of an allowence. Now, if you had 3 seperate fanclubs - the majority of these fans are going to have to choose one - I don't know many parents who are going to pay for 3 seperate fan clubs! (the fan club is 5000 yen per year just to belong + you have to pay for tickets and goods and what not) - So, if they were forced to choose most are going to choose kattun - whether you like kattun or not it cannot be denied that the majority of you and J fanclub members have kattun as their number one.
Ok, so if they had seperate fanclubs and most were members of the kattun fan club - that means most would not get the k8 information, or pamphlets or what not so even if they had a certain interest in k8 (or news but I will use k8 as the example) that interest would dwindle, because llets face it a 15 year old does not have aa great attention span - out of sight our of mine type of thing.
But with all 3 groups being in the same fan club, kattun fans can get info about k8, they can apply to k8 cons - and maybe they weren't big k8 fans to begin with they get interested, they go to cons, they have fun...they buy goods, they buy albums and look, k8 become big big, have a national tour - have their goods selling out - have hit albums and dvds.
Personally, I think if the fanclubs had been divided up all groups would have lost those "fringe fans" and I don't think the fanbase would have grown so fast

2nd point I disagree with - I don't think there is such a big problem with fans - fans of any groups. Yes, there are a few fan girls who get noisy but no more than any other place where a large group of young girls are brought together.
I am lucky in that I live in Japan, and I go to ALOT of concerts - this past year alone I have been to about 30 concerts ranging from Smap to k8 - and every group in between and in all of those shows I have NEVER not once seen girls getting out of hand to the point that security had to be called. Yes, some girls yell out during MC, and some giggle and laugh at inappropriate times - I have seen a couple of girls reach out and try to touch boys (which I think is the most unruly thing I have seen) but I have never seen "bad" fan girls. Now, I am not saying they do not exist - obviously they do or the boys (k8) wouldn't be mentioning them in their diaries. However, I think they are such a tiny tiny percentage of the fan girl population that it is not really fair to say there is a "problem" amongst fans - it is more like there is a problem amongst human beings, because there are always some crazies out there.
21 nybbles / byte me?